Comments on: Coding or drag-and-dropping? http://blog.rayapps.com/2008/09/22/coding-or-drag-and-droping/ About Ruby, Oracle, Mac and others Wed, 28 Jul 2010 16:18:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.com/ By: Raimonds Simanovskis http://blog.rayapps.com/2008/09/22/coding-or-drag-and-droping/#comment-361 Raimonds Simanovskis Tue, 07 Oct 2008 11:12:11 +0000 http://rayapps.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-361 Why I like small and beautiful code? You write code just once but read it many times. Small and beautiful code is much more easier to understand, test, refactor and change. From my experience the problem with large automatically generated code using "productive" GUI tools is that programmers quite often do not understand "magic" of generated code, it's more harder to debug problems, they do not know how to do unit testing of such generated code and also it's harder to identify performance bottlenecks of such generated code. Therefore I am advocating that programmers should understand code and they should not rely just on GUI code generation where initial productivity hides larger unproductive maintenance work. Why I like small and beautiful code? You write code just once but read it many times. Small and beautiful code is much more easier to understand, test, refactor and change.

From my experience the problem with large automatically generated code using “productive” GUI tools is that programmers quite often do not understand “magic” of generated code, it’s more harder to debug problems, they do not know how to do unit testing of such generated code and also it’s harder to identify performance bottlenecks of such generated code.

Therefore I am advocating that programmers should understand code and they should not rely just on GUI code generation where initial productivity hides larger unproductive maintenance work.

]]> By: er http://blog.rayapps.com/2008/09/22/coding-or-drag-and-droping/#comment-360 er Tue, 07 Oct 2008 09:23:49 +0000 http://rayapps.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-360 Software engineering is not about writing beautiful code - it's about productivity. You can’t develop enterprise level applications by using only drag and drop approach, even using Jdeveloper/ADF ;) On the other hand, why should I take care for instance of BPEL code Software engineering is not about writing beautiful code – it’s about productivity. You can’t develop enterprise level applications by using only drag and drop approach, even using Jdeveloper/ADF ;) On the other hand, why should I take care for instance of BPEL code

]]> By: Raimonds Simanovskis http://blog.rayapps.com/2008/09/22/coding-or-drag-and-droping/#comment-344 Raimonds Simanovskis Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:01:34 +0000 http://rayapps.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-344 @shay What I am afraid is that majority of developers will not look at the source code and for them after drag-and-drop some magic is happening and after that something works or not. I just think that for programmers we need to raise the bar and programmers should do the code and should understand in which files what is located. Otherwise we have too many developers who do not understand what they have built in their programs :) And regarding version control it seemed to me that the source code is split into very many Java and XML files and as a result if you do even just small drag-and-drop change it might result in big changes in source code. And as a result such changes might not merge very well if several developers are working together on the same BPEL process or WebCenter page. But I need to see it more in detail to understand if this is really so. This was intentionally provocative post :) I will try to go to demo grounds to have a more deeper look what is happening beneath this visual development. @shay

What I am afraid is that majority of developers will not look at the source code and for them after drag-and-drop some magic is happening and after that something works or not. I just think that for programmers we need to raise the bar and programmers should do the code and should understand in which files what is located. Otherwise we have too many developers who do not understand what they have built in their programs :)

And regarding version control it seemed to me that the source code is split into very many Java and XML files and as a result if you do even just small drag-and-drop change it might result in big changes in source code. And as a result such changes might not merge very well if several developers are working together on the same BPEL process or WebCenter page. But I need to see it more in detail to understand if this is really so.

This was intentionally provocative post :) I will try to go to demo grounds to have a more deeper look what is happening beneath this visual development.

]]> By: shay http://blog.rayapps.com/2008/09/22/coding-or-drag-and-droping/#comment-343 shay Mon, 22 Sep 2008 12:27:34 +0000 http://rayapps.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-343 One thing that JDeveloper aims to do is simplify development with a more visual and declarative development approach - but this doesn't mean you can't or that you won't be doing coding also. In fact for every visual editor that you are working with there is a "source" tab at the bottom - you can click it to switch for example from the BPEL diagram to the BPEL XML - and then you can directly edit your code. And you can also version control those files. In fact JDeveloper automatically does mini version control for your files - this is what the history tab at the bottom of each file will show you. One thing that JDeveloper aims to do is simplify development with a more visual and declarative development approach – but this doesn’t mean you can’t or that you won’t be doing coding also. In fact for every visual editor that you are working with there is a “source” tab at the bottom – you can click it to switch for example from the BPEL diagram to the BPEL XML – and then you can directly edit your code.
And you can also version control those files. In fact JDeveloper automatically does mini version control for your files – this is what the history tab at the bottom of each file will show you.

]]> By: Raimonds Simanovskis http://blog.rayapps.com/2008/09/22/coding-or-drag-and-droping/#comment-342 Raimonds Simanovskis Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:51:11 +0000 http://rayapps.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-342 @Peter That's me in the first row of <a href="http://pmoskovi.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/webcenterhandson1.jpg" rel="nofollow">your photo</a> :) I'll try to come to you in demo grounds to discuss my concerns. @Peter

That’s me in the first row of your photo :) I’ll try to come to you in demo grounds to discuss my concerns.

]]> By: Peter Moskovits http://blog.rayapps.com/2008/09/22/coding-or-drag-and-droping/#comment-341 Peter Moskovits Mon, 22 Sep 2008 04:17:58 +0000 http://rayapps.wordpress.com/?p=45#comment-341 Interesting points about SOA and WebCenter. If interested in more technical deep-dive discussions, I'd recommend you to stop by at the demo grounds where development and product management staff the pods. We'd be happy to go into details there. The overarching theme of Oracle's development stack is to provide a productive environment for you to build enterprise applications. The most typical and basic capabilities can be built using DnD, but there's a lot of space for coding to fine tune your applications. Not sure I fully understand your concern and the relationship of drag and drop and version control. I do agree, that you as a developer have to know what's happening behind the scenes when you perform a drag gesture. Peter Interesting points about SOA and WebCenter. If interested in more technical deep-dive discussions, I’d recommend you to stop by at the demo grounds where development and product management staff the pods. We’d be happy to go into details there.
The overarching theme of Oracle’s development stack is to provide a productive environment for you to build enterprise applications. The most typical and basic capabilities can be built using DnD, but there’s a lot of space for coding to fine tune your applications.
Not sure I fully understand your concern and the relationship of drag and drop and version control. I do agree, that you as a developer have to know what’s happening behind the scenes when you perform a drag gesture.

Peter

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